Israel and Islam, Brothers split by decision.

A Sefer Torah, the traditional form of the Hebrew Bible, is a scroll of parchment. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Now, as I continue this study. I want to make known from the last post, that at first it really looks like at some point they actually knew God, (Yahweh, house of Jacob) (Allah, house of Ishmael) together. Then, right here they split. Was it a decision? or, Was it in anger?
As we keep going through the Qur'an, Notice how this changes so fast, yet has anyone ever learned this?

Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow) 

Read the full chapter here. 
http://quran.com/2
2:131 When his Lord said to him, "Submit", he said "I have submitted [in Islam] to the Lord of the worlds."
2:132 And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob, [saying], "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims."
2:133 Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, "What will you worship after me?" *They said, "We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God*. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
2:134 That was a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do.
2:135 They say, *"Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided." Say, "Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham,* inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists."
2:136 Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."    

Right away in these text's I notice something huge. Something we don't see in the Bible. I tend to notice the name of Christian a lot. As expected none of it good. The part that really has to be remembered here. Is that the Qur'an was written after Jesus Christ was hear on Earth. Very noticeably after the name Christian was here as well. 

I will get more into the history of the Qur'an in a future posts. But first,

Where is the original story? So far in my studies I find one that is the oldest on these. In Hebrew. Known as the Torah. 
Read more about it here. 
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/torahaccuracy/


"The Torah was originally dictated from God to Moses, letter for letter. From there, the Midrash (Devarim Rabba 9:4) tells us:

Before his death, Moses wrote 13 Torah Scrolls. Twelve of these were distributed to each of the 12 Tribes. The 13th was placed in the Ark of the Covenant (with the Tablets). If anyone would come and attempt to rewrite or falsify the Torah, the one in the Ark would “testify” against him. (Likewise, if he had access to the scroll in the Ark and tried to falsify it, the distributed copies would “testify” against him.)

How were the new scrolls verified? An authentic “proof text” was always kept in the Holy Temple in Jerusalem, against which all other scrolls would be checked. Following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE, the Sages would periodically perform global checks to weed out any scribal errors."

"The meticulous process of hand-copying a scroll takes about 2,000 hours (a full-time job for one year). Throughout the centuries, Jewish scribes have adhered to the following guidelines:

• A Torah Scroll is disqualified if even a single letter is added.
• A Torah Scroll is disqualified if even a single letter is deleted.
• The scribe must be a learned, pious Jew, who has undergone special training and certification."

 Being this is from a Jewish site. Many still don't believe that Jesus was The Messiah or a Prophet. After the Destruction of the Second Temple. Would be 70 B.C. Before Christ. I will definitely get into more of this in a future study. But it is something that needs to be noted.

You can see more on translations and actual text's here.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

Now, what does the Torah say about Ishmael?

Genesis 16

New King James Version (NKJV)

   

Hagar and Ishmael

16 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. And she had an Egyptian maidservant whose name was Hagar. ² So Sarai said to Abram, “See now, the Lord has restrained me from bearing children. Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her.” And Abram heeded the voice of Sarai. ³ Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan. ⁴ So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.

⁵ Then Sarai said to Abram, “My wrong be upon you! I gave my maid into your embrace; and when she saw that she had conceived, I became despised in her eyes. The Lord judge between you and me.”
⁶ So Abram said to Sarai, “Indeed your maid is in your hand; do to her as you please.” And when Sarai dealt harshly with her, she fled from her presence.
⁷ Now the Angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. ⁸ And He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from, and where are you going?”
She said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.”

This very incident seemed to have caused so major chain reactions. Now I could be wrong here. But take the time and read all of it here. 
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+16&version=NKJV 

Now when it came down to the Split up of these two brothers. This is where we begin to see two entirely different stories. But also keep in mind here. One of these books was written quite a few years after Jesus walked on the Earth.

On one hand we have the Qur'an which tells us this.
2:132 And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob, [saying], "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims."
2:133 Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, "What will you worship after me?" *They said, "We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God*. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
2:134 That was a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do.

On the other hand we have the Torah which tells us this.

Genesis 21 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+21&version=NKJV

Hagar and Ishmael Depart
⁸ So the child grew and was weaned. And Abraham made a great feast on the same day that Isaac was weaned.
⁹ And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she had borne to Abraham, scoffing. ¹⁰ Therefore she said to Abraham, “Cast out this bondwoman and her son; for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, namely with Isaac.” ¹¹ And the matter was very displeasing in Abraham’s sight because of his son.
¹² But God said to Abraham, “Do not let it be displeasing in your sight because of the lad or because of your bondwoman. Whatever Sarah has said to you, listen to her voice; for in Isaac your seed shall be called. ¹³ Yet I will also make a nation of the son of the bondwoman, because he is your seed.”
¹⁴ So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water; and putting it on her shoulder, he gave it and the boy to Hagar, and sent her away. Then she departed and wandered in the Wilderness of Beersheba. ¹⁵ And the water in the skin was used up, and she placed the boy under one of the shrubs. ¹⁶ Then she went and sat down across from him at a distance of about a bowshot; for she said to herself, “Let me not see the death of the boy.” So she sat opposite him, and lifted her voice and wept.
¹⁷ And God heard the voice of the lad. Then the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said to her, “What ails you, Hagar? Fear not, for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is. ¹⁸ Arise, lift up the lad and hold him with your hand, for I will make him a great nation.”
¹⁹ Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. And she went and filled the skin with water, and gave the lad a drink. ²⁰ So God was with the lad; and he grew and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. ²¹ He dwelt in the Wilderness of Paran; and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt.

If you want to know more about the entire story Read all these Chapters.

Genesis 16-21

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2016-21&version=NKJV  

As we read from the Qur'an and the Torah themselves, we begin to see how the two Brothers Ishmael and Issac split apart. Even though Abraham and Hagar didn't like the idea according to the Torah. God saw it to be right in His eys, to make a Nation out of the seed of Issac. Later to be known as Israel from his son Jacob.

Yet, according to the Qur'an we have a story that seems that the split was a chosen decision. Though as much as I have read the book. I have yet to see the full story in the Qur'an as to what really happened. Hagar wasn't mentioned much. But you can see more about Ishmael in the Qur'an here. 

Surat Aş-Şāffāt (Those who set the Ranks) 37

http://quran.com/37Although if you do go through blogs and other sites. It seems that this entire battle of who is wrong and right can be lined up in what was posted here on this site. 
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/MusTrad/sacrifice.html


This is a mere [farfetched] explanation since we never say "only son" except to a person who hasn't got but one son. Moreover, the firstborn has got a special place [in the heart of his father] that is not given to the following children and the order to sacrifice him is therefore a greater test.


Today, I'm stopping here. As I'm trying so hard not to write a book here. The more we dig into all this. It's going get very, very interesting from here on out. 
Feel free to let me know if I left anything out here so far. Also note. This part of this study isn't quite done just yet. 
As the two brothers have fought over the past few thousand years now and counting. You would think that somehow deep down that they would hope to be able to re-united as a family. Yet the entire Religion thing written from these two books stop everything from moving forward. 
Simply put. Both sides of the family isn't able to learn what the other learns about their God.
(Not my interpretation, Just my opinion.) 


This subject is about to get real deep there is so much more to come. Thank you for reading.

If you haven't read the first part of this study, I incourage you to do so located here.
http://israelandislam.blogspot.com/2010/01/israe-and-islam-brothers.html

Related articles

• Genesis 16 - Sarai and Hagar (fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com)
• I did not come on my own, but he sent me. (tvaraj2inspirations.wordpress.com)
• Genesis 15-16 (mybiblereadingplan.wordpress.com)
• Meet Hagar, maidservant in the House of Abraham. Out of Egypt (ptl2010.com)
• God's Father-heart for Muslims (jimbaton.com)
• Meet Hagar, mother of the Islamic Prophet Ishmael (ptl2010.com)
• Jesus Christ in Islam (islamgreatreligion.wordpress.com)
• God in the Bible and the Holy Quran (islamgreatreligion.wordpress.com)
• The truth revealed in our day (antimessiahrevealed.wordpress.com)

Israel and Islam, Brothers?

Updated 3/29/2012

My entire focus on this post is to show the differences Between the Torah, The Prophets, What we know as the Bible, Old Testament, and also the New Testament. (Greek Writings)
and the Qur'an.  These two brothers have been fighting over the same piece of land for thousands of years now.

Expulsion of Ishmael and His Mother, from Gustave Doré's illustrated Bible of 1866. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

The more I study and the more I look further into most religions. I find that so many seem to get so mad at the Israel and Islamic conflicts that have been going on for so long. In many cases they should be. This is going to focus on why that is.

I also tend to find several people that seem misinformed on History mostly cause they are usually not allowed to look outside of their own religion to find the truth.

What makes these books so different?

One major change here is Ishmael, what they call the illegitimate son because he was born from one of Abraham's maid servants. Her name was Hagar.
Ishmael.

By all means if you can read the full chapters at the links.

In Genesis 16:1
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+16&version=NKJV

Hagar and Ishmael

16 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. And she had an Egyptian maidservant whose name was Hagar. ² So Sarai said to Abram, “See now, the Lord has restrained me from bearing children. Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her.” And Abram heeded the voice of Sarai. ³ Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan. ⁴ So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.

⁵ Then Sarai said to Abram, “My wrong be upon you! I gave my maid into your embrace; and when she saw that she had conceived, I became despised in her eyes. The Lord judge between you and me.”

⁶ So Abram said to Sarai, “Indeed your maid is in your hand; do to her as you please.” And when Sarai dealt harshly with her, she fled from her presence.

⁷ Now the Angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur. ⁸ And He said, “Hagar, Sarai’s maid, where have you come from, and where are you going?”
She said, “I am fleeing from the presence of my mistress Sarai.”

⁹ The Angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself under her hand.” ¹⁰ Then the Angel of the Lord said to her, “I will multiply your descendants exceedingly, so that they shall not be counted for multitude.” ¹¹ And the Angel of the Lord said to her:

“Behold, you are with child,
And you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the Lord has heard your affliction.
¹² He shall be a wild man;
His hand shall be against every man,
And every man’s hand against him.
And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.”

Ishmaelites born of the Son Ishmael Tells a story that most don't see today.

To start off with,  The original language was written in Hebrew. Not Aramaic, I will get to that later.  But take a look at the Translations for yourself.
See the translations here.

www.scripture4all.org

Hebrew Interlinear Bible

You may need to download the font in order to read the above page but, it's well worth it. I use this site all the time. 

Genesis 16 and 17 is where this information is at.

Then again if we go into this based on facts, we would have to begin an entire different post to talk about all this. One of my favorite studies. (Prophecies)

As Ishmael and his mother left they went to another area. The moved down to an area we all hear about on a daily basis today. Babylon, Iraq and later as time went on Persia, Assyria. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Who later became a great empire. Iran, Iraq and several others among that region.

Read more on the Ishmealites here.
Though I don't like using wiki due to how easy it is to change and post whatever you want to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael

Notice this.

Islamic traditions consider Ishmael as the ancestor of northern Arab people,[1] while Jewish traditions are split between those who consider Ishmael their ancestor and those, like Maimonides, who believe that the northern Arabs are descended from the sons of Keturah, whom Abraham married after Sarah's death.

I will go further into this history as well.

When it comes to Hagar the name derived from more of this origin. Later than the original manuscripts.

Hagar (Hebrew: הָגָר, Modern Hagar Tiberian Hāḡār, "Stranger"; Greek: Άγαρ; Latin: Agar; Arabic: هاجر;‎ Hajar), according to the Abrahamic faiths, was an Egyptian handmaiden of Sarah, wife of Abraham. At Sarah's suggestion, she became Abraham's second wife. Her story is reported in the Book of Genesis in Judeo-Christian tradition. In Islam, her story is alluded to in the Qur'an, but her name is not mentioned. Her role is elaborated in Hadith. (Which also will be addressed in these studies) She was the mother of Abraham's son, Ishmael, who is regarded as the patriarch of the Ishmaelites i.e. the Arabs.

You see, Even back when we hear that old story of David and Goliath. Palestine, Turkey, Syria,(Damascus) and many others had the same motives that come from these same 2 nations from being half brothers all for one cause. To own and rule God's territory.

The land promised to Israel who's name was Jacob at first. Became a brotherly fight that has lasted for thousands of years.
Genesis 17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+17&version=KJV

¹⁷Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
 ¹⁸And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!
 ¹⁹And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
 ²⁰And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
 ²¹But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
 ²²And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.
One born from a maid servant, And one born of his wife Sarah.

What does the Qur'an say about all this?

Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow)

(No, I did not make that up!) 

First off in several place in this chapter they are warned about Jews and Christians. 
2:120
And never will the Jews or the Christians approve of you until you follow their religion. Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance." If you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, you would have against Allah no protector or helper.

I will get into more later. Read for yourself here.
 http://quran.com/2
 

2:125 And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, [saying], "Purify My House for those who perform Tawaf and those who are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer]."

126 And [mention] when Abraham said, "My Lord, make this a secure city and provide its people with fruits - whoever of them believes in Allah and the Last Day." [ Allah ] said. "And whoever disbelieves - I will grant him enjoyment for a little; then I will force him to the punishment of the Fire, and wretched is the destination."

127 And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing.

128 Our Lord, and make us Muslims [in submission] to You and from our descendants a Muslim nation [in submission] to You. And show us our rites and accept our repentance. Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
Personally. I feel Ishmael's side of the family already owns enough as it is. Let Israel have a home also.

129 Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from themselves who will recite to them Your verses and teach them the Book and wisdom and purify them. Indeed, You are the Exalted in Might, the Wise."
130 And who would be averse to the religion of Abraham except one who makes a fool of himself. And We had chosen him in this world, and indeed he, in the Hereafter, will be among the righteous.131 When his Lord said to him, "Submit", he said "I have submitted [in Islam] to the Lord of the worlds."

Now here is where it begins to really change. 

132 And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob, [saying], "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims."  133 Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac - one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."

I will not post the whole chapter but by all means go to the link above and read it when you can. 
Notice how all of a sudden they added another name here? 

136Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." 

Take note here, Because this is going to get very interesting from here on out. Also notice, Jesus? Islam believes Jesus is only a prophet. Downgrading him to a lower level than what most Christians know him as God in the flesh.

Note also I did not want to put this all in a blog. But to at least kick this off. I could find no other way to start this study.
Let me know what you think so far. There is a lot more areas that need to be noted in this study.
Comments and Opinions welcome.

See the part of this study here.

Israel and Islam, Brothers split by decision.

Related articles

• Genesis 16 - Sarai and Hagar (fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com)
• I did not come on my own, but he sent me. (tvaraj2inspirations.wordpress.com)
• Puzzling over Hagar and Ishmael (nelima.wordpress.com)
• Faith, Islam, Relationship (godfamilycountrylove.wordpress.com)
• Meet Hagar, maidservant in the House of Abraham. Out of Egypt (ptl2010.com)
• The Curses of Genesis (doughnutholes.wordpress.com)